I want to introduce this entry with an apology. I am about to rant. At times, it may seem incoherent, without even a complete thought. Sorry!
Can I just say that I'm tired of the Cool-Kidz church! Let me first explain what a cool-kidz church is. Really, what we are talking about here are posers. I read Brandon's entry on the Exiled Wilderness blog and it stirred my mind to thinking. Then, I went on a search for something different.... something that one could dream about.... an authentic expression of creative Christianity in the context of the denomination that I find myself most often affiliated. This is what I have discovered. Those who claim to be on the cutting edge and doing really creative things are really just taking off the JC Penny suits and replacing them with cool Express and Gap clothes, with the ocassional Old Navy item. It's not really different. You're just allowed to wear "younger-looking" clothes without feeling underdressed. Now, don't even try to pull that junk that you are dressed casual so you can connect with a wider audience. Thats bull-malarchy. Someone is going to try to say that their $150 threads from Express is going to connect with folk who have to shop at the 'Five and Dime.' Its like we've given church a makeover. Yeah, thats it exactly, almost. We've dressed our programs, music, buildings, selves in a younger garb to attract a younger audience, yet we experience the same problems. We still propagate a consumeristic christianity that seeks only what is best for "I". It is evident in contemporary Christian advertising. Its all about the uplifting messages and wonderful children's programs.... yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah. Don't even get me started on what we are doing to our kids. Anybody else concerned that (given the fact that we typically only have one large worship gathering with supplemental small groups through the week, which parents often find baby-sitters for)... anyone concerned that our children rarely, if ever, worship with their parents? If a child only worships with other children, never seeing their parents, wouldn't they naturally think that church/worship/relationship with God is for kids. Then, when they are older and not wanting to look childish, they abandon and leave. Anyway, I said don't even get me started. Back to the Express Church... its true! They are all the same. Gone are the days of poofy hair and gray suits, hello to spikey hair, director pants and poplin shirts. By the way, don't forget your belt and matching shoes.... anyway, thats all, I gotta go measure a house.
19 comments:
i dont know what you're looking for, but it is all about me.
We just need something bigger! And with more lights! But we're cool because we wear jeans!
Yeah. The nerve of these churches that have the audacity to minister to kids and get people together in small groups. I mean...who do they think they are?
Perhaps, you could start a church, open the service by hailing down on every man, woman, and child with a few choice four letter words as you invoke the name of the Holy Spirit while presenting yourself in your non-denim, non-spikey, non-gray suit wearing, poofy headed self? Sounds like you've got he winning game plan!
Ahhh come on...I'm just messing with you, Josh. If you really don't want me to read your stuff, I won't. Its a real help in getting me on a long in reaching my chuckle quota for the day.
Look, I don't care who reads my blog, really. I don't even mind the sarcasm, in fact I enjoy a sarcastic blurb as much as the next person. Its not that any of the stereotypes mentioned are negative in and of themselves. The frustrating part comes when they are invoked and people become fake. This is what I'm tired of.... fake re-visions of church life. I'm talking about the surface level, "let me put the right packaging and advertizing together and people will come" revisions. They will certainly come, if for nothing else than the "lights, camera, action" hype built around the services. Perhaps, just perhaps, somewhere they will meet Jesus, but as long as they come and are good American citizens (which means they vote Republican) and tithe, they're in fine shape. Finally, it seems to me that most often those churches that talk most about ministering to families split those families up whenever possible.
Josh,
Church is totally a human-led organism, full of flaws, and far removed from the original practice of the New Testament church.
In fact, while I want a church with a New Testament heart, I don't want a "New Testament Church." Talk about dividing...women on one side, men on the other. And, whatever you do, don't let a woman speak in that church. Oh yeah, any profits you make in the roofing business, bring 'em on over. We aren't asking for a tithe. We are asking for it all to be in common with all of the believers.
Ouch. That last one certainly and fortunately did not stand the test of time.
I personally think a cool kids church is pretty great. It beats the heck out of a church that models itself after unlearned disciples rather than a child welcoming Christ.
I think at the end of the day, we are all doing our dead level best to share the Gospel, an incredible Gospel. However its shared, whenever, and to whomever, I think its a great thing.
Remeber the words of Christ in Mark 9:40, "For he who is not against us is on our side."
Travis said:
Ouch. That last one certainly and fortunately did not stand the test of time.
My question: Why is that fortunate?
Because it doesn't work.
Travis Johnson said:
"Church is totally a human-led organism, full of flaws, and far removed from the original practice of the New Testament church."
God forgive us, then, for not following him.
Travis said
"Because it doesn't work."
spoken like a true capitalist
Brandon, how would you suggest removing the flawed human element from the church?
Nic, I am firmly a capitalist. But, I am also a student of the Scriptures and see that this man-made, Spirit-filled Church of the Book of Acts had a failed socialist experiment. That's totally not the point of this entry. But, it is inidcative of the problems the Church of Christ has reconciling our supernatural calling with a totally human application.
not up to date on the current Church of Christ situation. and perhaps it has everything to do with this entry. i see part of josh's problem being the commercialization and capitalization of the church. you say that it was a failed experiment. please show me where and how and why it failed.
also, if you were a true capitalist then your socialist tendencies would not have interfered with your participation in the football league.
Jesus, maybe? Perpetuating it is sure not the answer.
Can I play?
I feel what you're saying in your rant Josh. I can hear the hurt and disappointment in your tone. (of course it's difficult to detect tone in type)
But if I can be honest (or pragmatic), I'll take cool kidz church over old people church anyday. Gap jeans do attract a younger crowd than suit coats. And if church is gonna be essentially the same but I get to pick the cool kid template or the old man template, I'll take the cool kid template hands down with the hopes that maybe change of any kind (even cosmetic) might lead to bigger more important changes.
As far as "Fake re-visions" or cosmetic revisions. I would welcome it where I am. Change is the real profanity that you have spoken on your blog (let it go Travis). Some churches will die rather than change. And maybe "updating the look" isn't going to fix everything it sure is a great start. One that I would welcome with open arms. Hopefully the faux revisions will be the start of many other changes that can be made. you have to get the momentum moving before you can direct it.
I agree that a good marketing plan should not be the key to a successful church. I would rather focus on church health. "Success" seems to mean numbers to most folks. I'm not really a fan of mega-churches.
I sense a real impatience in your rant. Things happen slowly. The Matrix analogy is overused, but many people/churches really are not ready to be unplugged. Many never will, and realistically we need to wait for some of these people to die before substantial reforming change can happen.
I hate departmentalization in churches but I'd love small groups and a great children's program too. I agree that children, youth and college students all need to be in service with the whole body at times. We need to share in worship as a community and usually we compartmentalize things. We make the younger services interactive and engaging and then expect them to like "big church" which is anything but that. But I'm not sure if abolishing children's ministry is the way to do that.
Let me encourage you to do constructive theology. It seems that it is the habit of many (who are students of post-modernity and the church's response or lack therof) to only de-construct. Maybe you aren't in a place where you're ready to begin constructing a vision for what the church can be. That's ok, take time to heal. But know that a sick person must be nursed back to health. it takes time and compassion. The church is no different. While I am impatient too, I know that many of our churches don't even realize they are unhealthy. They might need a shock of reality to wake them up, but then they are going to need someone who has a postive vision for how to help. It's called hope.
Be a catalyst for positive change. Not trying to sound like a know-it-all. Just talking out of where I am like you are.
ahh. but if we really are postmodern then all we can do is deconstruct. it seems that is the only commanality those that have been labeled deconstructionist have.
now sure a cosmetic change will look different, and draw a different crowd. but we all know that there was a cosmetic change that led to the way things are now. we could plug this conversation into 19th century america, or 18th century England, or 17th century Germany. its all the same. there is nothing new under the sun.
I don't believe post-modernity and deconstruction are tethered. When I recently heard Dan Kimball I was really encouraged at all of the things his church is doing. They are very creative. In fact he gave several practical examples of things to do in your churches and encouraged being creative. He was interested to hear what kinds of things different churches are doing to create sacred space.
I think there is a place for "de-constructing". There are a lot of ecclesial structures that need to be destroyed. But the church exists in the world to give hope. Deconstruction seems like such an inward act when I think the church is called to an outward mission.
I heard of a church that called it "simplifying" instead of deconstructing. The church went through a period where it paused its programs while it critically evaluated them. After examining them they "simpified" many of them into a new approach. I think this is a great example.
I think there are several commonalities between emerging christians. They are dissatisfied with the current ecclesial culture, they seem to lift up community more than than the individual, the experience is given equal footing with logic or reason, they see the importance of symbols in sacred space, they want the church to be creative in its discipleship, they have a more narrative/journey approach to the Christian walk. These are just a few commonalities that span denominational lines.
There is nothing new under the sun. No disagreement there. I'm not sure if you were using that statement to strengthen what I said or weaken it.
Post-modern seems to me a cultural term. I don't think any Christian should accept the label of post-modern just like we shouldn't accept the label modernist, capitalist, democrat, republican. We are in the world not of the world. We function in and minister to those in post-modernity but I don't want to wear it as a badge. I might have voted for a republican president but please don't associate me with all things republican. In the same way, I might agree with some of the approaches to functioning in post-modernity but don't associate me or the church with all things post-modern.
The point of my comment was. I agree with Josh and when the time is right I know him to be a brilliant thinker who God can use to create a new vision for the church despite his filthy blog :)
aint it nice how we can throw out a term and get things going. whether it is fuck or postmodernity. that is why i believe the church needs to avoid all labels. as we have said before language is limited. and i would like to say that it is limiting. and now to bring this back around to josh's original post. i believe that part of the problem with the cool-kidz is that they seek to label themselves. thus limiting themselves. in the wise words of Cake: We are building a religion, we are making a brand.
in fact i was reading a website of a church the other day and they actually used that term, brand. they had a certain brand that they wanted to sell.
and as for the meaning of 'nothing new under the sun'. that is up to you and the HS to interpret my dear reader.
mmm...I love cake.
Nic and Josh,
Apparently, you see nothing wrong with the language. Certainly, if you stare at my life for any amount of time, you find things that will make you cringe. But, listen to me because I am reading the Scriptures and they are very clear about this.
Be ticked at me if you like...think its en vogue if you like. But, Paul expressly states in Collosians 3:8...
But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. (NLT)
Your statements are public, viewed by an audience that not only includes Christ but also other believers and non-Christ followers. Judgments are being made about Christ based on our actions.
Please reconsider your freedom with language that you apparently do not find offensive for the sake of Christ. I'm not being a stick in the mud or holier than you because God and everyone else knows I am not. But, the language is not edifying, it is creating division, and it is expressly prohibited by the Scriptures.
Thanks for listening to me, a 32 year old knuckledragger with nothing better to do than bust your chops this Saturday AM. Give me a shout if you care to talk off line. My home # is 305.242.5774. I'd be glad to chat for a minute. I hope you also receive this in the attitude that it was given.
Trav
PS. To all re: Fantasy Football: Nic's comments are seasoned witth brokeness. I spanked him in the Championship game last year and he is yet to let that go.
And now, a response most likely to be met with loathing... A response to our esteemed colleague:
Apparently, you see nothing wrong with the language. Certainly, if you stare at my life for any amount of time, you find things that will make you cringe...
- OK, sure, everyone's life has points and phases and moments that would make someone else cringe. That is no reason to continue to bring it up, though.
But, listen to me because I am reading the Scriptures and they are very clear about this.
Be ticked at me if you like...think its en vogue if you like. But, Paul expressly states in Collosians 3:8...
But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. (NLT)
- So, Paul is saying "Maybe you should stop hating one another and treating your brothers and sisters viciously - spreading lies about them. Oh, and don't cuss"? Really? If you don't like a "dirty" word... OK. But don't constrain the words of Paul to what you think he said. Given that the other things he rebukes in the passage deal with treatment of others, the dirty language reference is speaking to a innuendo, etc. that is hurting someone. I hate to be all postmodern (hahaha... no I don't), but perhaps your comment is just your perceived reality of what that text is saying.
And besides, you lose points for not quoting the KJV.
Your statements are public, viewed by an audience that not only includes Christ but also other believers and non-Christ followers. Judgments are being made about Christ based on our actions.
- Josh is a blogvangelist? I don't disagree that Jesus can read this blog, but I'd think he'd be more interested in Josh's heart, and perhaps he and Josh have hashed this out. Maybe, just maybe, Jesus can handle a few "cuss" words.
Please reconsider your freedom with language that you apparently do not find offensive for the sake of Christ. I'm not being a stick in the mud or holier than you because God and everyone else knows I am not. But, the language is not edifying, it is creating division, and it is expressly prohibited by the Scriptures.
- Creating division? Ah... I'm missing that one. And if you're speaking of this discourse the six or seven of us are having, I would 1) hardly call it a division and 2) venture to say some of us are predisposed to nitpicking anyway. Edifying? I'm not sure about that either, because I laughed. Expressly prohibited? Eh, sir, thou doth soundeth like a good modernist, wherewith thine absolutist principles in yon Scripture.
Thanks for listening to me, a 32 year old knuckledragger with nothing better to do than bust your chops this Saturday AM. Give me a shout if you care to talk off line. My home # is 305.242.5774. I'd be glad to chat for a minute. I hope you also receive this in the attitude that it was given.
Trav
PS. To all re: Fantasy Football: Nic's comments are seasoned witth brokeness. I spanked him in the Championship game last year and he is yet to let that go.
- Letting it go seems to be a theme that needs to be addressed.
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